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I'm pretty normal when it comes to sleep -- if I'm not pregnant, I can get up or go to bed whenever. My husband needs 11 hours, preferably from around 1 a.m. till about noon. It's amazing the flak he gets for this. People think he's lazy, undisciplined, boring, unproductive, the works. The man has a sleep disorder, for crying out loud. Getting up to meditate ain't doing squat for that.
Thanks for some words of reason. Great post.
I hope you'll stop by again :-).
~Clay
(College shopping, by the way, is insanely fun. Are you in the market? I'd look at Carleton, although I didn't go there myself).
Good luck with everything! And thanks for stopping by :-)
By the way, you might also be interested in this:
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Pupils shift their time of day preferences from morningness to eveningness during the age of puberty. Therefore, early school start times may have a negative influence on school functioning, adolescent health and on grade point average. Here, we show that morningness – eveningness influences school performance as measured by the final school leaving/university entrance certificate.
Correlation between morningness – eveningness and final
school leaving exams
CHRISTOPH RANDLER & DANIELA FRECH
Biological Rhythm Research
June 2006; 37(3): 233 – 239
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I think it would be amazing if schools could shift the times. We have a late start day once a month, which is heaven, but once a month is not enough! They should do it more. Like everyday. XD And while they're at it, I'd prefer block schedule too.... XD Wishful one, I am.
Luckily, this wonky time thing has not affected my grades too harshly - 4.57 isn't so bad! :D I'm a junior - college shopping will start this summer, I imagine! :) But I have no idea what I want to major in. Anything but math or engineering...that's all I know. And school size? I have no idea. :P
Yeah, the article does go against the grain, but the main message is faintly intuitive when you throw up out the social stigma associated with getting up late.
At any rate, researchers (who I cited) can do lots of experiments, but in the end there's usually lots of variance in the dataset (at least in the social sciences). They can explain what a general population *tends* to do, but what a group of people tend to does not necessarily apply to every individual studied.
My advice -- which isn't very original at all -- is to do what works for you. My hope in writing this piece was that it would give people room (or self-permission) to consider that getting up late might be best the most productive and healthy thing to do :-).
Thanks for stopping by, Warren. I appreciate the comment.
"I have a few blogs I check out every other day (Urban Monk and Zen Habits are 2 of the 5…err, 6 now) so yay for you! :) I look forward to future posts. :)"
Awwww...
> I think it would be amazing if schools could shift the times.
I think there's actually an educational reform movement somewhere with that agenda. I bet if you poked around the internet you'd find a petition to sign.
> 4.57 isn’t so bad! :D
Nice work!
Keep it up Annie,
Clay
Great thanks for an alternative point of view. Much appreciated!
This is the first time that I've read your blog...
Great writing!
I have always been battling with my sleep schedule, hitting the snooze button from 6am-8am straight before turning off the darn thing and rolling over until 10am this morning.
In school, I often missed my first class, and I later bacame a bartender. I gave up that career, and I am starting a wellness business along with persuing my musical talents. Now, I am trying to wake up early to write and to do yoga and cardio. I was successful for about a week...It felt great! But I am still battling it out.
Your article is making me consider throwing in the towel and just waking up whenever I feel like and staying up as long as I can see straight to be productive. Thanks for the insight!
I'm going back to bed.
Regarding this:
"It is dark, my family is asleep, it is quite and I can concentrate on things to do."
Your comments are great because they reflect what many people say about the morning "my family is in bed, I can sleep, etc." 9PM-1AM are pretty much my peak productivity hours as well.
@Paul #2: I'm glad that you enjoyed the in-depth analysis. I was a tad worried that people would find it to be off-putting. Thanks for sticking around for the whole article.
@Nagar: Could be. Good luck trying to figure out your peak hours. It's a fun and rewarding process, especially when you let go of the idea that you MUST be up early.
@Jess: Thanks for the compliment on my writing. I'm new at this game and your compliments are encouraging. I would encourage you to "wake up whenever you feel like it" but I'd caution against "staying up as long as I can see straight to be productive." My advice is to trust your body when it comes to getting up *and* going to bed. If it's evening and you feel like you should be in bed, then you're probably right. Just my two cents.
@Ian: Thanks for digging this. Um... I didn't run into you while doing a roommate search in Madison back in the day, did I?
I'm also a first time reader. What do you think about going to bed at the same time (no matter what time), everyday/night? I'm very concerned about stress and this is supposed to be an important factor in reducing it.
I also think that your article gives alot of people a sense of relief because it is a common belief that people who sleep in are lazy. I however are kinda of the same belief system as you, meaning you should trust your own body. However, everything in moderation.
I'm definitely interested in stopping by again. Thanks!
I would suggest trying it out the same time thing and seeing if it works. My hunch is that alterations/cycles/whatever in your body, in the weather, in your workload, etc. also require fluctuations in your sleep schedule. You might be unnecessarily boxing yourself in, or swimming upstream, if you try and *will* your body into doing something.
As for the stress, I would highly recommend meditation. Have you tried it? 10 minutes per day is all it takes for me and it's a small price to pay for mental clarity. The effects don't kick in immediately, however. It takes time, patience. It's also helped me tune into my and identify my real needs. Again, just my two cents. (Oh, I'd recommend a book called The Power of Now).
Thanks for reading.
Before electricity (millions of years of human evolution)the average person slept 10-12 hours per night. Not 8, or 4, or 6. Nowadays millions of people complain about fatique and depression and so on - how many of them are getting a good night's sleep?
I also think that coffee worship is a serious problem. Caffeine is linked to many health problems, from IBS to hypertension to PMS. It seems more and more that the world goes round on this artificial stimulation.
I, for one, am tired of dealing with anxiety-ridden spaced-out would-be-overachievers who just get on everyone's nerves. Go back to bed!
#################
Hi Amy,
Your point about pre-electricity habits is a good one. The anthropology of sleep is an interesting issue, and one that hasn't received much treatment (from what I can tell). This bit from wikipedia is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Anthropology...
At any rate, thanks for expanding the discussion and providing a different angle on this topic.
~Clay
When I wrote "any person who…sets serious goals in his/her life turns to rising early" I never meant everyone succeeds at it :-) Bust most at least try it... And if something doesn't work for you - accept it and go find another way. There are many other great ways to be productive.
Linked to this great post from my site...
Cheers!
I believe you're right about most people aspiring to rise early at some point or another: modern life is likely much easier for early risers. And, unfortunately, like you say, not everyone succeeds.
Your site is great and has helped a lot of people become an early riser (including me, in a past life).
Honored that you joined the conversation,
~Clay
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Hi ListenEllipse,
You bring up an excellent point that I failed to mention in the article. When your sleep schedule is aligned with your circadian rhythm, less sleep is necessary. The corollary is that but when your sleep schedule is out of sync with your circadian rhythm, MORE sleep is necessary. I'm really glad you mentioned this.
~Clay
Nice article....I like it...
Actually I'm not a morning person...I hardly get up early in the morning...
I just knew that getting up early might be harmful.... ^^
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Hi Keith,
Ben was wise on many accounts. The gist of the article is that there is no single way. Truth, as Krishnamurti says, is a pathless land and there are real biological differences that translate into optimal sleeping times, and these optical sleeping times vary from person to person. That's really the main point.
Glad you stopped by,
Clay
This was an interesting read- a great first stop
I found this site through ZenHabits and I'm pretty glad I did
I'll be coming around more often - what a find!
Sherry
Now I arise at 5-5:30 every day, without an alarm, and get to it! My most creative ideas come to me in the morning, and at night I tend to start dragging.
BTW I am now a subscriber, thanks!
I am so with you here. My natural rhythm has always been to stay up late and get up late. Even as a little girl my mum said I would sneak around the house on my hands and knees trying to find a "secret" position where I could watch tv and my parents wouldn't see me. They fought to get me to bed and out of bed my entire childhood. Nothing has changed. My peak writing time is still 11pm - 2am. I just can't help it.
Kelly
First off, just wanted to compliment you; this blog is a clearly a work of great love and effort, and the little I've looked through, you really have a keen ability to foster a discussion environment.
Next, I just wanted to give my two cents:
Last semester, I had 8 or 9 AM classes every day. Certainly not "ungodly" hours of the morning, but still plenty early, especially if I was going to go through whole hour-plus morning routines.
This semester, none of my classes start before noon. I wake up when my body tells me to, usually between 9:30 and 10:30. I sleep eight-and-a-half to nine hours a night, and I'm not sure I've ever been happier. Of course, a lot of the happiness has little to do with sleep schedules, but I think it plays an important role behind the scenes. I'm sleeping more than ever, and so I'm feeling more energetic and focused than I ever did last semester. While friends complain about grogginess after late-afternoon classes and stumble back to their dorms to crash, I grab a snack and get to work. Since the beginning of the semester, I've started tutoring, writing and editing for the school newspaper, ushering at a local theater, and writing every day -- not to mention the requisite studying and surviving college.
So, in summary, for me, allowing myself to wake up later has actually increased my productivity and happiness. I'm sure some day I'll try Leo's plan for waking up early and taking advantage of those early hours, but the energy and focus I get from a natural, complete sleep cycle is not something I want to give up.
Anyways, keep up the good work with blog -- I'm subscribing! Good job! Take care.
I'm older (45) and wiser (I hope) and my peak times are still 10 pm to 2 am.
§Clay
Great article, again. This is my second read on this blog and I am off to subscribe now.
I sleep from 3 a.m. to 9 a.m. and meditate for 30 min at around 6 p.m. I certainly have less need for sleep than on a so-called normal schedule.
Sometimes I need to wake up early just because I'm too tired by 9pm (kids, ya know!). And other times, I stay up late to work (after the kids are put to bed, when the house is finally quiet).
But I do love sleep, though.
I've sometimes wondered how much of one's lifespan depended on the amount of sleep one got throughout one's lifetime -- then I snap out of it and get back to work.
It's been a couple weeks since anyone has commented on this article, so naturally I feel a need to keep things fresh. A point that did not come up (so far as I can see) is how the evolution of public education will address this issue. From my observations, public education is moving swiftly toward a much more independent framework. Inexpensive access to technology continues to revolutionize public classrooms, and it is not a stretch to see the implications of this. Only two decades ago many had to complete their computer class assignments or essays in class, because home computers were not nearly as available as they are today. Now, students have the option - or are expected - to complete the same work at home. What might the next step be? Glad you asked! I suspect a significant portion of education will become decentralized. Students will be able to 'login' to class from bed - or better - login when they feel like it. It is no secret that interactive classrooms exist already, and I think it is only a matter of time before the public will not want to pay the overhead for infrastructure, auxiliary staff, etc. when they can receive the same results without the cost. Maybe I digress a bit, but the gist is that such an education system would allow people to schedule their day around their own sleep patterns. I'm not suggesting there aren't many other factors related to this type of education system (lack of social dynamic) to discuss, but that is for another time and another place. Again, thanks for the food for thought. My peabrain needs it!
And to the person who told Clay to wait10-15 years and then he'll see ... Well I'm almost 40 and I love sleeping until 9:30, going to sleep around 1 a.m. while reading blogs like this in bed on my iphone in the dark while my wife is sleeping next to me...and we have 4 kids as well so life isn't easy! Thankfully my job let's me come in when I need to, as long as I get my work done. I'm very blessed in that respect.
I've seen a lot of people setting themselves the standard of waking up at 5am or whatever. Whenever I've tried to do that I've ended up feeling deathly for most of the day, and it's led me to conclude that you need good reasons to get up early. Which leads me to another point - there's something of a hatred of sleep as though it's wasting precious time. I think sleep is wonderful (possibly because I've always suffered from insomnia!), and I get most of my best ideas when I'm in bed.
From a confirmed night-owl, it's good to see that a new perspective is being offered on the cult of the early-riser.
My boss won't let me start work until 7:30 am so I have learned to sleep in until daylight.
I always wake up 3 minutes before the alarm clock goes off.
Great article. There really is nothing new under the sun, but that doesn't mean everyone has seen it.
Thanks,
A book I've been reading called Adrenal Fatigue (basically the physiology of stress) recommends sleeping until 9am, because those with adrenal fatigue tend to get their best sleep during those hours. I've always been one of those people.
And the quote on being more creative if you stay up late and more boring and conventional has certainly been my experience of larks and owls.
Keep pwning these awesome posts.
~Duff
very good article! Thank you.
I guess main stream opinion still discounts late risers as lazy.
Now for a different take on that: A friend who organised a seminar for me asked me for a flyer to advertise the event. I did that between midnight and 2 am. She was plainly amazed - the next day of course - how anybody could produce quality at that time of day (night).
And that is a time when those lazy early risers are already tired and sleeping... ;))
Ok, I am lucky to be a freelancer and often have the chance to create my day the way it suits me. But not when I give a seminar. Starting times are usually between 9 and 10. And that is a bit of an effert for me.
Well rising early or late is just a question of types, not of morals. And of having a choice.
Best wishes from Germany
Detlev
signed
m.m.m
Just wondering whether you came across these in your own research.
But that's a funny quote by Juan Francisco Díaz-Morales. I'm a creative-type who relies on intuition, with unconventional political views and (as a general rule) am rather informal. But I love getting up early in the morning. I'm at my most creative between 7 and 11 am. After 1 am I am absolutely no fun to be around. And creativity and productivity almost never come to me after noon. Certainly not after 11 pm. Maybe it's genetic.
I think people think that if they get up early, they're giving their best energy to themselves. What I mean is, if they wait until after work, they know they'll be tired and their energy will probably be low. So they figure that working late into the evening won't be as productive as getting up early. However, what I produce before 10 am isn't worth two cents, so I think you're right -- it's more important to go by when you know yourself to be most productive than by the hour on the clock.
Yes! But your life isn't over yet. It clearly states "sooner or later". Later is still in the future.
:)
Nice article, in fact, the first which approves my way of living! I'm a software developer and also I do some Forex. You know, when I was younger, I was a good student but I hated waking up early to attend school, however I was forced to do so. Now that I don't have to wake up early or go to bed early I don't sleep at nights at all, I'm up from 5pm to 11am most days. I don't know if I'm truly a night owl but I do my job better than my day-working friends.
About 6 months ago I realized I have heart problem, specifically Hypertension. When I changed my sleeping schedule to night-working the problem faded away and a week ago my doctor said you do not have any heart problem.
Cheers!
I appreciate that you did the research on this subject, I just wish we didn't live in this uniformed, everyone is the same, bullshit world.
Dunno if anyone mentioned this as well. But Franklin said "early to bed" as well, so I guess that means he probably got heaps of sleep, right? Like 8-10 hours? And everyone knows that you're suppose to get 8-9 hours as an adult.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/BHCV2/BHCART...
So I guess Franklin's sleeping habits payed off, 'cause his wife was certainly infatuated with him.
Many kudos to you, Clay!